Anything from hang-gliding to macrame (including fishing)
 #142559  by Gerry
 Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:28 am
lakewatcher - I am sure you know the way words are pronounced varies from tribal area to tribal area. I am from East Coast North Island and I sometimes have difficulty (unless I am concentrating) in catching some of the words spoken in Te Reo on our maori news channels.
My old Dad was a reasonably fluent speaker of what was known in our area as " Ngati Porou". Te Reo was a word I had not heard until the last few (say 10) years.
The other complication is that the written Maori language was invented largely by the British. They recorded, as best they were able, the sounds they heard. Possibly why they did not record the silent "h" missing from Wanganui!
Seems to me the spoken Maori language is used in a similar way to the way English is spoken in the UK. Those folk from the North can understand those from the South and vic versa (sometimes with difficulty).
So the question is - who is really correct Scots or Geordies. Ngati Porou or Tuhoe. Really, I don't think it matters. What does matter is that well meaning folk go to great lengths to get it right and end up spoiling a beautiful language.
All the best, and good luck with your project.

Gerry
 #142577  by idex
 Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:05 pm
Gerry, I agree with you. I am from Taranaki and find some of the dialectical variations a bit harder to follow. The Taranaki and Wanganui "Wh" is a much softer sound than the harsh Tainui or Te Arawa "F" and it is clear that many academics are trying very hard to pretend that all tribes should pronounce all their words in the same manner. I suspect the old folk from some areas, if still around today, would not be all that pleased to see this happening.

Every language has regional variations and there is nothing wrong with this. Spoken languages vary over time also.

Of more concern to me is the disgusting adoption of crude four-letter words into everyday usage which is particularly prevalent amongst the younger generation who do not appear to be at all interested in speaking either Te Reo Maori or English correctly.
 #142583  by lakewatcher
 Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:45 pm
Hi Gerry, Idex and anybody else,
20ish years ago an old guy told me he had caught some eels. How he said the name of the river, and how I would have said it back then was so different that I didn't even recognise the main river in town. Heck!!! A light bulb moment for me!!!! And surely I could do better.
So that was my starting point. I learnt verbally by listening, asking, and being continually corrected and taught by many different (although mostly Whanganui), and very patient people.
Yes there is individual variations...but a massive gap between the 'white ' way of prounciation and the 'Māori' way.
I guess what I want to know now is does this matter, and if so should I continue to post written hints with the aim of getting those interested a bit closer, or would someone else ( more qualified) like to take over...or what?
Hey..its a good discussion for Under the Awning anyway... shame we can't all be sitting there with a cuppa. Cheers Karyn
 #142585  by Andycap
 Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:06 pm
Shouldnt need to worry too much about the younger generation and the 4 letter words ,another few years and they will have lost the power of speech anyway ,.Put a group in a line and all they do is text each other anyway .Walk through any mall and all you see is mindless zombies . lol
 #142744  by lakewatcher
 Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:33 am
Morning all
We will work on the vowels.....they don't change unlike English where we have words written the same but said differently e.g. sow (plant seeds) or sow (female pig); or said the same but written differently... saw, sore. Māori is not like that...so it's much easier
#3
The vowel 'a'
It rhymes with 'are'(You going) or if spelling out a word the letter 'r'
If it has a macron ( as with all vowels).. 'ā'.. the sound is long; if it doesn't then the sound is short...more like 'a' apple or 'a' pear. It's still the same sound but said quickly
Tā= tar
Kā=car
Mā= mar
Hā= haha (funny)
Rā= ummm can't think of one- remember though to roll the 'r'

#4
With Māori words every syllable is said seperately. A mistake is to combine such that Matamata is commonly said Mat..a..mat..a in the English way. Try it Ma..ta..ma..ta. your mouth has to work a bit harder!!!!
Try these...just focus on the 'a' and what we've already learnt.. the 'au' and roll the 'r'
Matatā- Ma..ta..tar (not mat..a..tar)
Katikati- Ka..ti..ka..ti (not cat..ee cat..ee)
Taumaranui- toe..ma..rrra.. nui (not tam..rar..nui)
Kaimanawa- Kai.. ma..na..wa (not Kai..man..a..wa)
Te Kauwhata - Te Ko (previous lesson- lydia)..wha..ta (not cow...what..a)
Raumati - rrrow the boat...ma..ti (not rhymed with cow and not ..mat..i)
Papawai- Pa..pa..wai (not pap..a..wai)
Aramoana - A..rrra...mo..a..na).
Remember...
Rhyme all those 'a' s with 'a' apple.... its said quickly....unless it has a macron.. then it's said long (more forcefully??) like 'are'

PS the old road signs never put the macron on. Only the newer ones do. Neither does my AA road atlas; And..by the way...neither does our own Travel Directory!!!! Now that could be sorted!!! So please correct any place name I've got wrong.
Cheers Karyn
 #142962  by lakewatcher
 Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:52 am
Tènā koutou katoa
#6..the 'wh'
This is what I was taught by people who most definitely will know
1) if born in or identify with the lands of the Whanganui River (NI) Iwi then the 'wh'. is said as what/when/why in English
2) If you come from outside that rohe then the 'wh' can rhyme with the fff in fun or photo.
3) there are also other dialects with their own way of saying 'wh' but I don't know them...maybe you could ask at a local Bilingual Kura .. they'll know.
So if you are from Whanganui and are travelling elsewhere you don't need to change to the fun/photo way of pronunciation...because everyone will know you 'Hail from Whanganui'.
Ditto..if you are from elsewhere and are visiting in Whanganui you won't need to change to the what/ when way of pronunciation....because everyone will know you are not a local.
That's it..nit a prob for the spoken word but Whanganui remains spelt by the Iwi as 'Wh.
So it's up to you to decide which pronunciation you will use..and that depends on where your roots are.


#7 the vowel 'e'
It rhymes with 'air' or 'ear' and is NOT said as 'ee' or ay (like in day)
Remember...if it has a macron then say It long/more forcefully. If it doesn't have a macron then it's the same sound but said short/quicker
Tē= tear
Kē= care
Mē= mare (female horse)
Pē=pear/pair
Nē=near
Hē=hair/hear
Wē=wear
Rē=rrear
Try these:- although if I've written the sound as long...if there is no macron say it short
Hātepe=har.. tear.. pear (not Har..tee..pee)
Te Ānau= tear Are..know. (not tee are now)
Ruapehu= Rrua...pear.. hu. (Not Rua.. pay.. hu)
Watch the ends of your words don't revert to the 'ee' sound
Whakatāne= Wha..ka...tar..near. (Not Wok..a..tar..nee)
Taihape= Tai.. ha...pear (not Tai..happy)
Waimate= Wai...ma...tear ( not wai..mat..ee). And Remember to say all the sylables in a word individually.

Ka kite anõ.. see you again...be onto the 'i' and the 'o'
 #143233  by lakewatcher
 Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:41 am
Morning all
#8 the vowel 'i'
It's said so that it rhymes with 'ee' or if spelling out a word with the letter 'e'
So try these:-
Tī= tee
Pī=pee
Mī= me
Hī= he
Wī=we
Kī= kee
Rī=rree
Nī=nee

Timaru= Tee...mar...rru (not Tim..a ru)
Kiritaki = Kee... rree..tar...kee (not Kirry...tack..ee)
Apiti= Are..pee..tee (not app..pit...ee)
Hiwinui= Hee..wee..nui

#9 the vowel 'o'...
It rhymes with awe; or; ore. And it isn't said as 'oh' or the letter 'o'... remember that is the domain of 'au'
So try these:-
Tõ= tor...small hill
Põ=pore
Mõ= more
Hõ= hoar.. frost
Nõ= gnaw ...chew a bone
Kõ= core
Rõ=rroar

Mokoroa= more...core... rroar....a (not moh.. koh...roh...a)
Opõtiki= awe...pore..tee..kee (not oh..poh..tick..ee)
Hokitika= hoar...kee...tee..kar (not hoke.. a.. tick..a)
Arapito= are...rrah...pee...tor
Õhau= awe...hoe (not oh.. how)

Remember:- if the vowel doesn't have a macron say the sound quickly/short

Safe travels....and next time it's the 'u'
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