#145215  by vansvilla
 Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:56 am
Curious now,
Is it possible that the towing weights are mandated by the vehicle manufacturer and not by the Engineer ?
Certainly the case for cars and vans so the towbar designer is working to those limits.
For heavy vehicles, buses trucks etc there is a data base that NZTA use from which they get GVM, GCM, GTM figures from. Again manufacturer based info.
In this litigious day and age it would be a brave Engineer to override those ratings.
 #145219  by nzkites
 Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:35 am
I thought that would be the case and I contacted Iveco in NZ and they could not give me any info on weights etc and suggested I contact the local agents, they said to contact NZTA who said it was dependant on the Certifier. I contacted the certifier and he said that he would need to see the vehicle first and I am waiting for him to find time to view it.
 #150083  by stingrayk
 Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:13 pm
Still working slowly on this. There seems to be inconsistency within the LTSA rules - old and new, which seem to contradict each other. Only older 4wds built prior to 2003 seem to be able to be a-framed. Although I have heard that newer ones can be IF the mounts are at least 25mm behind the airbag sensors. Frames are not allowed to be folded up in front - must be removed when vehicle is driven. Unbraked limits for towing seem to be getting more and more entrenched at 750kg, no matter what vehicle weights are involved. Does anyone have any definitive answers on this? Even testing stations cannot seem to agree on what is okay, and I don't want to set something up and then have it fail. Have had no luck on the braking a-frame option either.
Cheerz Keith
 #150089  by BUSRSQ
 Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:08 pm
I have not seen a towbar on a bus that is more than 750kg unbraked 2000kg braked, we have about 9 buses all with towbars mostly 20ish seaters all with that rating, even the few larger buses with towbars are also the same rating.
 #150093  by Bryan
 Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:55 pm
Hi, there are portable in car brake systems around, try looking at “ rvibrake.com” which is American I think but it mite start you research.
 #150128  by vansvilla
 Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:30 am
Suggest you read LTSA Fact sheet 75.
This tells you what class vehicles and years etc. If nothing else it is a starting guide that can be used as a reference.
That only leaves the braked limit, now however hard you search in LTSA info you will never find anywhere where it says that to tow heavier weights unbraked is illegal, they merely say guidelines.
However your insurance co may have a different view.
My bus has a 2000kg unbraked rating. Real handy. Spoke to another chap yesterday, same rating, coincedently both done by the same certifying engineer who is still currently registered.
 #150129  by beanpole
 Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:39 am
My thoughts are based on the wof requirements of light trailers.

If the trailer is not required to have brakes up to 2 tonne where is the problem. In this case the only problem as I see it is the towing vehicles capacity/ability to safely control the trailer, leaving out driver incompetence.
Having a braked trailer is more than useful for most drivers with the speed limits allowed. Now we have electronic /damping controls to mitigate the sway problem, usually created by incorrect loading of a trailer.

If a heavy vehicle is towing a light trailer/toad and the towbar is rated as in the previous post (2000kg), the towbar if it can pull that weight, conversely it is able to have the same weight pushing forward against it.

Provided that the towing vehicle's GCM is not exceeded there should be no concerns.
But as soon as you go over 2000kg for the trailer, it then becomes a wof requirement for trailers up to 3500kg to have brakes.

I have seen many toads loaded up with all manner of equipment that surely weigh over 2000kg. This is where the problem arises as it is defenitely outside of the wof regs and into the insurance domain .

Gordon
 #150201  by RogerNH
 Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:18 pm
I have been legally towing a 2009 Suzuki Swift since new behind my RV (Fiat Ducato Chassis) . The braking system operates directly on the footbrake and it is a USA brand "Patriot" . This is very effective, operates automatically and even comes with a breakaway cable and remote wireless control .
The tow plate fitted ( with Suzuki's approval) is designed in the USA and manufactured and certified in Australia and the a-frame is Blue Ox brand again USA made and supplied certified in Australia. The whole arrangement is very quick to attach and remove. Your contact for all this is Northcoach RV Equipment Queensland Australia. - they supply for a wide range of vehicles and can advise you. All this is in common use in Australia.
Roger NH
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