#165533  by tedheath
 Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:54 pm
I tow my Ford Ka by A frame behind my Bedford bus and you dont even know its there.
 #165535  by mattn
 Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:28 pm
Although there are no (as far as I can tell, after many years of asking and never had a reference to one) specific laws about towing weights beyond the "Stop in 7 meters from 30km/h" law, the Police have the ability to bring you before the courts with charges of Careless driving, Reckless Driving, Dangerous Driving (with or without Causing Injury/Death) should the circumstances warrant it. The courts will apply tests such as "Prudent Driver" and past precedent setting cases, and determine if you are guilty and the appropriate punishment. You may or may be able to defend these charges successfully, but you will not be able to avoid the lawyers bill.

There's no need to worry about the purely theoretical outcome of such a sequence of events, we all know it could never happen to ourselves.
 #165537  by tedheath
 Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:47 pm
Towbars once again like gas plumbing, if the law is an ass it will get disregarded by the Kiwi bloke. Some people are born to follow and be goody goody two shoes I am just not one of them. Police have better things to do than pot people for towing ratings which are guide anyway.
 #165538  by Nut17
 Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:10 pm
The whole "Flat Towing" concept has been a bag of worms with the rules being interpreted differently by the range of factions enforcing the rules. The mounting points on the vehicle being towed is still open to a fair amount of varied professional interpretation on what is legal and what is not. Rules governing tow vehicles that weigh 3500 kg or more, requiring a COF do fall into a much more stringently controlled and enforced set of rules. Under 3500 kg, the tow rating of the vehicle is the main concern and it is my understanding that any competent but unqualified back yard engineer could construct and install his / her own tow bar and build their own trailer or caravan up to 3499 kg - so long as it can pass a WOF inspection. I have built about 20 trailers of all shapes and sizes over the the last 45 years without issue and most of them are probably still in service including the trailer under my current jet boat built in 1999.
If, and it is quite unlikely, but if we decide we wish to tow a "Toad" I will build a custom braked trailer for the purpose - Probably end up as Ben's race car trailer that we will have to fight over ;) :D
 #165543  by david 60
 Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:33 am
Busrsq, do I read your post right that if the certified towing connection is 2000 kgs that is what you can tow legally regardless of what the manufacturers of the vehicle state is the max towing weight as in the sticker on the windscreen
 #165546  by vansvilla
 Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:21 am
Busresq raises the point on the towbar connection point being the limiting factor. And yes that will be right, especially in the case of a heavy vehicle where the towbar needs to be certified.
What I was trying to point out that the unbraked limit, typically 750Kg is not an absolute figure. As Matt says, he has searched for legislation, rules regs and not been unable to find anything pertaining to it. Neither have I been able to find anything. However, as he said there are a few other things that may like to try and ping you on.
Now, as for the towing attachments on the towed car, these are covered pretty well in NZTA Fact sheet 75. This says that the brackets have to fit for purpose. So why are some manufacturers persisting in having them certified? Do they not have enough faith in their ability to produce something that is fit for purpose, the worst I heard of the other day, we will not fit one for you unless you have a braking installed. What business is it of theirs? Sure they can advise you but to refuse to sell you one unless you fit a braking system is beyond their mandate.
 #165557  by tedheath
 Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm
Talking today with a guy with a Daihatsu he tows behind a Rainbow 9m and has brackets on the front of the Daihatsu, just takes them off every 6 months for WOF .
How I did my attachments was bracket Iess. Duplicated the rhs female threaded towing eye on the other side, so I screw the 2 plates in and the A frame attaches to these with some Wasp pip pins. Test run was to NZCMA rally in Gizzy 2019 worked a treat as I was a bit worried about my welding skills I had two 2500 kg strops from the car sub frame to a point just below the trailer coupling. Dont think I will need them from now on as my welding has held up.
My bus towbar is from before certification required ie its tangata whenua.
 #165558  by BUSRSQ
 Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:33 pm
OK So just to clear up where I am coming from, the world I am in is probably completely opposite to where most of you are coming from.
I own/run/mechanic for my bus company we have in excess of 30 vehicles ranging from 8 seat vans to 50 seat buses, we do various things but these include Contracted runs for the Education sector and commercial companies, Snow shuttles, bike shuttles ( have meet mark doing this)
Because of this everything I do HAS to be 100% legal and above board, I never have nor will ever do things half arsed or not 100% Legal.
I have 10 Buses ranging from 20 seat "coaster" types to 37 seat Used japanese Import type Buses that have a tow bar on them, These ALL have the same UNBRAKED rating of 700kg the braked rating does vary a wee bit ranging from 1500kg to 2000kg ( no rhyme or reason as the heavier buses have lower ratings )
These ratings are in 3 places 1/ on the towbar cert plate, sometimes these are abbreviated as there is limited space on them. 2/ the Loading cert, usually stuck to the front windscreen it will have the Braked and Unbraked limits on it THESE are your maximum legal weights, 3/ The LT400 which is the cert/paperwork that is filed with the NZTA ,if you decide to ignore these for whatever reason then you can and will be fined if ever caught ( and most likely you will have to leave what ever you are towing behind ) I have spoken to the CVIU about various things over the years and one thing that has been coming up of late is that they are getting more interested in what the motorhome people are up to, so expect to be looked at.
A few things that I will mention 1/ watch your overall length the CVIU has said to me that a 9 metre bus with a rather long trailer on it ( designed to carry 22 MTB's) is getting close to maximum length.
2/ What ever you decide to do with lengths and weights make sure it looks legit, the more dodgy it looks like the more chance you will be looked at.
3/ If you flout the rules/laws/weights and something does go wrong expect the book to be thrown at you
4/ Removal of parts/connections/towbars to pass a WOF/COF is just stupid as you already know that what you are doing is not correct.
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