#25707  by Nut17
 Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:32 pm
It looks like it will not be long before this technology will be cost effective for our deep cycle "house battery" as well as starting battery requirements.

Check this thread on the Aussie Caravaners Forum.

http://www.caravanersforum.com/viewtopi ... 55&t=17543

Cheers Chris
 #25724  by Nut17
 Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:25 am
Another intriguing automotive battery development. There is hope yet for all the petrol heads out there in the future :lol: :lol:


Cheers Chris
 #25727  by Neddy
 Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:52 am
I guess it depends on how you define "cost effective", Chris.

At $2600 for 12v 120AH these batteries are currently over 8 times the price of an AGM equivalent - that is a long, long way from being cost effective in my opinion!

There are, of course, some advantages in that they are lighter and can take a very high charge rate but for me these features have little relevance.

I note that they only have a 3 year guarantee.
 #25739  by Nut17
 Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:47 pm
Neville, like most technology, these batteries will very quickly drop in price. Five years ago, I had never heard the term AGM in relation to lead acid batteries, and now they are basically "industry standard" for house battery requirements in motor homes and caravans.

Already, lithium batteries are competitive if priced on the number of cycles you get for your dollar, but of course this is not that relevant to most RV applications.

I agree that currently, the exorbitant pricing would rule them out -- but watch this space.

Cheers Chris
 #34885  by Nut17
 Thu Mar 22, 2012 6:53 am
Interesting reading back through this thread on Lithium batteries. I had a good chat to a bloke on a battery/solar/LED stand at the Caravan & Motorhome Show at Hamilton, and the battery that Neddy quoted at $2600 (120 amp) is now $1000, less than a year later. When you consider that the lithium technology allows the full capacity of the battery to be discharged each cycle, only half the capacity is needed when compared to AGMs or wet cell batteries. This effectively now has the price of lithium around double AGM when comparing available AMPS per $. The 120 amp lithium was about the size of an NS70 and about half the weight.

Another twelve months and there could well be cost effective benefits with this technology :)

Cheers Chris
 #34887  by Genesis
 Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:32 pm
Chris, I understood that lithium batteries (meaning lithium iron phosphate, LiFePO4) could only be discharged to 20%, ie a 120AHr battery would have 96AHrs available, and that there is special circuitry included which prevents using more than this. However, it is still an awful lot more than the comparable lead acid battery.
 #35692  by Nut17
 Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:16 pm
I am in the process of re-visiting this technology. At present I have two 100 AMP AGM batteries and wish to increase my capacity. My existing batteries are only 15 months old and one appears to perform a little better than the other which in turn creates issues with my charging systems - They tend to be fooled into reducing the charge before the batteries are full. AA Solar have two options available to me. 4x 6v 260amp AGM's around $1200 plus cabling and install. (5 year pro-rata warranty) The second option that I am seriously considering is a 200amp LiFePO4Y battery which will provide a similar capacity with a considerable weight advantage and a hefty price disadvantage :x ;) $2000 :!: :!: :roll: The long term performance benefits would appear to make the extra investment worthwhile, not to mention the reduced weight and the 10 year warranty.

Below is some info cut and pasted from the AA Solar website http://www.aasolar.co.nz/AA%20Champion% ... s.html#GEN

At 3.3V per cell, a package of 4 cells can replace a traditional 12V lead acid battery. We can supply the best charger or solar controller to suit the requirements of the system voltage that you need to run.

Unlike standard lead acid type batteries which have a charge efficiency of 88%, LiFeYPO4 batteries are over 98% efficient. Their voltage remains almost unchanged down to 80% discharged state. They can be discharged 70% 3000 times with no loss of capacity. Discharging by 70% 5000 times results in < 5% capacity loss, and 7000 times results in < 10% loss.

LiFeYPO4 batteries are very safe. They won't leak, and don't emit explosive gasses. They are ideal for electric vehicles, mobile homes and boats. Their long life also make them superior for house use as well.
See below for the conditions on our 10 YEAR WARRANTY.

Yttrium is found in most rare earth minerals, as well as some uranium ores, but is never found in nature as a free element. About 31 ppm (parts per million) of the Earth’s crust is yttrium making it the 28th most abundant element there, and 400 times more common than silver.
Cheers Chris
 #35694  by idex
 Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:47 pm
Chris, if I were in your situation I'd fix your charging system first. Get that working properly so the existing batteries are fully charged and you might find that's all you need to do. For about $110 you could get a smart alternator controller and you may have to modify your alternator slightly to allow external voltage control.

On the other hand, if you're seriously considering tossing out the AGM batteries how much do you want for them? I could be a very interested buyer! Send me a PM.
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